Found in 8 comments on Hacker News
tudorpavel · 2020-01-14 · Original thread
I recently read "An Introduction to General Systems Thinking" by Gerald M. Weinberg [0], which may or may not be in the same vain. These concepts are hard to wrap my mind around but they are appealing. I'll try your recommendation too, thanks!

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking...

fest · 2019-11-10 · Original thread
I really like the perspective provided by the General systems thinking [0]:

There are problems with little randomness and number of moving parts: these problems are either easy to reason about, or easy to solve by analytical means (think of systems that can be reduced to few equations).

Then, there are problems with either/both: large number of elements and high degree of randomness. These problems can be dealt with statistics.

Then there is a ball of mud between - medium number of elements/randomness. The number of interactions is too high to be able to reason about them effectively, yet too little to derive solution by statistical means.

Most of the software, especially poorly written one falls in this realm- the more interactions between elements, the harder to reason about. Mastering algorithmic wizardry just moves you slightly right on this plot- being able to decrease the number of interactions makes the system easier to reason about [1]

0: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking...

1: http://article.sapub.org/image/10.5923.j.ajss.20150401.02_00...

ismail · 2018-03-29 · Original thread
The answer below assumes the following:

- You are talking about the application of general systems theory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Systems_theory

- You would like to learn to apply 'systems thinking' principals and analysis in many domains or to new problems

- You would like to learn to model systems

- It is also important to note in many domains there are specific branches of systems theory that may be more applicable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_types_of_systems_theor...

- You could spend an entire lifetime learning in this field as many have done.

Types of systems:

Systems can be broken down by multiple dimensions:

- Complex

- simple

- unitary

- pluralist

- coercive

Systems thinking approaches:

- Hard systems thinking

- Systems dynamics

- Cybernetics

- Complexity Theory

- Soft Systems

- Emancipatory systems thinking

- Postmodern systems thinking

Learning More about Systems Thinking:

- A great website is the systems thinker, that covers quite a bit of topics. The articles are actually archives of a newsletter called "The systems thinker" https://thesystemsthinker.com/

- To get an overview of various approaches to systems thinking from an organizational perspective:

Systems Thinking: Creative Holism for Managers by Michael C. Jackson. https://www.amazon.com/Systems-Thinking-Creative-Holism-Mana...

- For general systems theory: An Introduction to General Systems Thinking by Gerald M. Weinberg https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking...

- For systems thinking and the learning organization:

The Fifth Discipline: The Art & Practice of The Learning Organization by Peter Senge https://www.amazon.com/Fifth-Discipline-Practice-Learning-Or...

- There is a great course that covers soft systems methodology, specifically to solve social problems: https://www.plusacumen.org/courses/systems-practice

- Habits of a systems thinker: https://www.watersfoundation.org/systems-thinking-tools-and-...

- Systems thinking resources: http://donellameadows.org/systems-thinking-resources/

* Update added additional resources.

W0lf · 2017-06-05 · Original thread
I've gathered all the book titles in this thread and created Amazon affiliate links (if you don't mind. Otherwise you still have all the titles together :-) )

A Pattern Language, Alexander and Ishikawa and Silverstein http://amzn.to/2s9aSSc

Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment , Stevens http://amzn.to/2qPOMjN

Algorithmics: the Spirit of Computing, Harel http://amzn.to/2rW5FNS

Applied Crytography, Wiley http://amzn.to/2rsULxS

Clean Code, Martin http://amzn.to/2sIOWtQ

Clean Coder, Martin http://amzn.to/2rWgbEP

Code Complete, McConnel http://amzn.to/2qSUIwE

Code: The Hidden Language of Computer Hardware and Software, Petzold http://amzn.to/2rWfR9d

Coders at Work, Seibel http://amzn.to/2qPCasZ

Compilers: Principles, Techniques, & Tools, Aho http://amzn.to/2rCSUVA

Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective, O'Hallaron and Bryant http://amzn.to/2qPY5jH

Data Flow Analysis: Theory and Practice, Khedker http://amzn.to/2qTnSvr

Dependency Injection in .NET, Seemann http://amzn.to/2rCz0tV

Domain Driven Design, Evans http://amzn.to/2sIGM4N

Fundamentals of Wireless Communication, Tse and Viswanath http://amzn.to/2rCTmTM

Genetic Programming: An Intrduction, Banzhaf http://amzn.to/2s9sdut

Head First Design Patterns, O'Reilly http://amzn.to/2rCISUB

Implementing Domain-Driven Design, Vernon http://amzn.to/2qQ2G5u

Intrduction to Algorithms, CLRS http://amzn.to/2qXmSBU

Introduction to General Systems Thinking, Weinberg http://amzn.to/2qTuGJw

Joy of Clojure, Fogus and Houser http://amzn.to/2qPL4qr

Let over Lambda, Hoyte http://amzn.to/2rWljcp

Operating Systems: Design and Implementation, Tanenbaum http://amzn.to/2rKudsw

Parsing Techniques, Grune and Jacobs http://amzn.to/2rKNXfn

Peopleware: Productive Projects and Teams, DeMarco and Lister http://amzn.to/2qTu86F

Programming Pearls, Bentley http://amzn.to/2sIRPe9

Software Process Design: Out of the Tar Pit, McGraw-Hill http://amzn.to/2rVX0v0

Software Runaways, Glass http://amzn.to/2qT2mHn

Sorting and Searching, Knuth http://amzn.to/2qQ4NWQ

Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, Abelson and Sussman http://amzn.to/2qTflsk

The Art of Unit Testing, Manning http://amzn.to/2rsERDu

The Art of Unix Programming, ESR http://amzn.to/2sIAXUZ

The Design of Design: Essays from a Computer Scientist, Brooks http://amzn.to/2rsPjev

The Effective Engineer, Lau http://amzn.to/2s9fY0X

The Elements of Style, Strunk and White http://amzn.to/2svB3Qz

The Healthy Programmer, Kutner http://amzn.to/2qQ2MtQ

The Linux Programming Interface, Kerrisk http://amzn.to/2rsF8Xi

The Mythical Man-Month, Brooks http://amzn.to/2rt0dAR

The Practice of Programming, Kernighan and Pike http://amzn.to/2qTje0C

The Pragmatic Programmer, Hunt and Thomas http://amzn.to/2s9dlvS

The Psychology of Computer Programming, Weinberg http://amzn.to/2rsPypy

Transaction Processing: Concepts and Techniques, Gray and Reuter http://amzn.to/

Types and Programming Languages, Pierce http://amzn.to/2qT2d6G

Understanding MySQL Internals, Pachev http://amzn.to/2svXuFo

Working Effectively with Legacy Code, Feathers http://amzn.to/2sIr09R

Zen of graphics programming, Abrash http://amzn.to/2rKIW6Q

danek · 2017-03-21 · Original thread
This gives a great perspective on complexity. Reminds me a lot of the book An Introduction to General Systems Thinking by Jerry Weinberg. https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking...
bcbrown · 2017-01-30 · Original thread
I love that book. Have you read https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking...? It's similar, but a bit more rigorous.
chadaustin · 2015-07-06 · Original thread
Some of my personal favorite resources on this topic:

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking-...

http://www.amazon.com/The-Systems-Bible-Beginners-Guide/dp/0...

http://www.amazon.com/Ackoffs-Best-Classic-Writings-Manageme...

I really enjoyed these books, but I am not super well-read in this area, so there may be better ones out there. You could try searching for "systems theory" and see what other resources are out there.

Systems theory is a very broad topic, so you'll find it attached to many specific disciplines, but the general idea is that you can take a bunch of simple things, hook them together, and produce a "being" that has totally weird behavior in aggregate.

dedalus · 2009-11-30 · Original thread
First, never confuse schooling with education

Second learn stuff thats in this book: http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-General-Systems-Thinking-...

Third,The general idea of good education is to prepare you for the future rather than learning about the past

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